Point, counterpoint

[aadler]

It’s been interesting, watching the events that followed out when Florida governor DeSantis sent a busload of illegal aliens (I sneer at the pusillanimous PC label ‘migrants’, they’re foreigners here illegally) to Martha’s Vineyard. As it happens, of course, the discussion of the matter lasted a lot longer than the events themselves, since the MV people got the military to haul these unwelcome intruders away in less than two days.

You know what? I don’t blame them for that. I know I don’t want a crowd of illegals dumped in my community, and if legitimate authorities promptly carted them away, I’d cheer and comment favorably on this uncharacteristic example of government efficiency.

I don’t even blame them (much) for doing it after having styled Martha’s Vineyard as a “sanctuary destination” during the early days of Donald Trump’s administration. The ‘not in my backyard’ phenomenon is not limited to leftists/progressives, all kinds of people have found that living with the results of their stated principles is a very different matter from blithely voicing those principles. I don’t respect that — changing your stand once it affects you personally does not deserve praise — but I don’t go crazy condemning it, either.

No, what really stands out for me is how they managed to reverse positions instantly and effortlessly, while continuing to sanctimoniously complain about how awful was what DeSantis had done.

Even if I didn’t agree with him (when, in fact, I do agree), I would have to recognize that DeSantis was acting in accordance with positions he’s been expressing for a long time. Wrong or right in those opinions, he has been consistent in his statements and his actions.

Whereas the holier-than-thou virtue-signalers changed directions the moment they were the ones who had to live with the results, but still feel themselves to be morally superior to the lowbrow primitives who say ugly, reprehensible things like, “No, it’s our country, we need to enforce our borders and not allow non-citizens to invade illegally and en masse.”

They maintain this elevated opinion of themselves even after having behaved in exact accordance with the sentiments they so vehemently deplore.

They look down on us because they don’t agree with us.

We look down on them because they don’t even agree with themselves.

Comments

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to debate the border situation with you. I believe it to be a complex and difficult situation in desparate need of bipartisan discussion and compromise. I don't see that happening in the near future.

The problem I have with DeSantis' stunt is first, he flew people from Texas to Martha's Vineyards. What business does he have taking Florida tax dollars to fly people asking for asylum from another state to other locations. Doesn't he have his own asylum seekers to transport? Second, the people transported this way were misled about where they were going and why. Lastly, and most importantly in my mind, some of the people in the transported groups had court days scheduled in the places they were transported from. Exactly what was the point of that? We already have insufficient immigration judges, the system is already clogged and problematic enough without absconding with the people who have court dates and wasting the court's time.

[aadler]

Our online relations have always been amicable, so I want to be very clear that there is no animosity in anything I say. If, despite my most careful efforts, some heat creeps in, that would be due to strong feelings I have about the issues, and is not in any way directed at you.

So, to reply:

> The problem I have with DeSantis’ stunt is first, he flew people from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard. What business does he have taking Florida tax dollars to fly people asking for asylum from another state to other locations? Doesn’t he have his own asylum seekers to transport?

This is the aspect that causes me the most uncertainty. How does a governor of Florida go about arranging the transport of illegal aliens from San Antonio to Martha’s Vineyard? Some have speculated that various Republican governors are working together in their strategic shipping of illegals to jurisdictions that claim to welcome them; I honestly can’t see how it could be done without such coordination. But I don’t know, and I would need more knowledge before I could offer any informed opinion.

> Second, the people transported this way were misled about where they were going and why.

I’ve seen that claimed; I’ve also seen statements regarding signed waivers and information packets containing maps of Martha’s Vineyard, which would argue in the other direction. Again, I don’t know … but I also don’t care, for reasons I will provide in more detail below.

> Lastly, and most importantly in my mind, some of the people in the transported groups had court days scheduled in the places they were transported from. Exactly what was the point of that? We already have insufficient immigration judges, the system is already clogged and problematic enough without absconding with the people who have court dates and wasting the court’s time.

If courts are overloaded, then someone who doesn’t show up — for whatever reason — is generally skipped over and “Next case!” called; given that, I’m not intensely concerned with the court’s time being wasted. As for the people with court dates, I don’t care (as mentioned above), because it’s not their country. They have no right to be here, any more than I have a right to move into Bill Gates’ home because it’s nicer than mine. If they’re deceived, I don’t care, because it’s not their country. If they’re inconvenienced, I don’t care; it’s not their country. If they get shipped off for forty-some hours in one of the toniest communities in the U.S. … well, that honestly would count as a brief luxury vacation they didn’t have coming to them because it’s not their country.

They have no right to be here. The federal government has no right to refuse to enforce immigration law, then refuse to allow states to do so, then call foul when governors of the affected states try to DO something about the elite-sanctioned invasion that’s been foisted on them.

Yes, it was a political stunt, absolutely. I’d like to see more such stunts … or, better yet, see such things be unnecessary because our national government was doing its actual job.

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

I can tell that this is a very important issue for you. First, let me say that I am not in any way against other states picking up some of the load. It's overwhelming and border states should not have to bear the burden alone. El Paso has shipped over 80 buses worth of asylum seekers to other parts of the country. But they did it what I consider the right way, people knew they were coming and services made available to handle the influx. With the number of people coming in the distribution should definitely be ramped up. What I'd love to see is a huge influx of immigration judges so we could get these people processed quickly. Help those legitimately seeking asylum and deporting those who need to be deported.

If I am reading your reply correctly it seems you don't believe people from other countries, mostly Venezuela at the moment, have a right to seek asylum in the United States because it's not their country. If that is the case I must respectfully disagree.

[aadler]

They have the right to seek asylum. We have the right to deny it, or to keep them out until a decision has been made. Asylum requests have become the de facto method for get-in-free.

And why should anybody have to ‘share the load’ for something they never agreed to in the first place? This is fiat from Washington, not only not approved by the population at large but in direct violation of actual existing law.

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

We find ourselves on different sides of this issue. I'm not conversant enough on immigration law to debate you on this and I certainly don't want to descend into uncivil discourse. So, I agree to disagree and quit the field.

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

I heartily agree with you, and with your rightfully bold defense of this Republic against an illegal invasion masterminded by the socialist *demoncrat* left of today!

[aadler]

I never thought I was alone in feeling this way. I don’t mind having someone tell me they’re of the same mind. If only we could get our self-styled masters to pay any attention …

You're so right about that, and your political lenses in your works as well!

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

*That* is why we're going to *fire* them; especially if they will not listen to their employers, *us*, the American people. No matter what they do, they're going to lose their jobs- especially for blatantly violating the law by engaging in voter fraud; for crying out loud, they've gotten the *undead* to vote.
I can see a fanfic involving that: the undead vote, and they always vote *demoncrat* (especially nowadays); it'd deal with necormancy to engage in voter fraud- but the lens is that the "Democrat" party has been consistently engaging in voter fraud via dead people voting... kind of a detective story- I think you can make something of that; I know *I* plan to make something of that.
Sincerely your fan, and more importantly colleague;
Vantiri.

[aadler]

If you write the story, let me know so I can check it out.

As far as firing them … nice if it was that simple. But how do we do it, exactly? We’ve already seen that the ‘ruling class’ will (because they’ve been doing it):
– suppress news that might be disadvantageous to them, while simultaneously pushing manufactured scandals designed to make their opposition look bad (and keep hyping the scandals even when they fail/are disproven)
– release burning looting criminal rioters whose felonies are recorded on video, while entombing without trial ‘tresspassers’ who were escorted by police into the areas they’re accused of violating
– cry election fraud whenever they lose an election, then commit greater (blatant, open, in-your-face) fraud to ensure they win every election after that
– create imaginary crimes with which to prosecute their opposition, while absolving anyone on their side from obvious and provable (or already proven) perjury, bribery, and even literal statutory treason.

Our civil war killed more Americans than the combined totals of every other war in our nation’s existence … and, in historical terms, we got off lucky, in that we managed to refrain from the usual round of postwar revenge killings and gratuitous prosecutions/persecution of our former enemies. A civil war is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a country —

— except to be conquered outright, either by an external enemy or by an internal tyranny, the latter of which shows many signs of being already in process and terrifyingly near to completion.

And, in many ways, it increasingly appears that ‘our’ government is trying to deliberately trigger a popular revolt, so they can take off the gloves and really crack down on all those people (us) who stand in their way by … I don’t know, trying to hang onto the principles lined out in the Constitution.

Good rebuttal.

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

Here's what we do, and if we do this, we cannot be undone: we stick to the regulations of the USA Constitution; we learn about our country's history; and we present proof of the crimes of the demoncrats endlessly; heedless of what they say.
As for these things, we uprise the *right* way: by voting them out of office, as they are *hired* by us, they are inevitably *answerable* to us, not the reverse.

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

I for one intend to write that kind of a tale- but I also have to come up with a solid breakdown. Perhaps I'd have some "vampire huntress" finding out about undead voters, maybe Richard Wilkins has employed necromancers in his service to recruit the dead to vote for him, so he could corner the vote and remain in office indefinitely... who knows.

Strategies that'll work no matter what in this situation you pitched to me.

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

Plus, they can't possibly win, not if we plant our feet solidly in the Declaration of Independence and the USA Constitution, as well as solid logic and reason- and keep on revealing their crimes... for every single action they take to stop us will only feed into our hands until they are completely tried and hanged for the treasons they've been committing against this Republic, one that derives its powers solely from the Consent of the People- as does any government at that; for if the populous cease to consent, they inevitably will remove that government from existence.
They're flipping out because they've already lost, so we've got to keep the strangle-hold on their *necks* until they yield and die, as a political cause.
Plus, their tactics are the unraveling of their own cause, and it is a huge laugh as that happens., watching that that is, and every single time they send out criminals they convinct themselves in the process of treason against their duties intrinsic to offices- so we've simply got to keep on publicizing their felonies: best strategy: go to ground, and as with an infantry assault: use passing through the fog silently to get into position, while they are unsure of where you are, nay, where *we* are... this situation, Charles Hapsburg V would call a small-arms fight in a built-up area; the state, the "heavy artillery" is entirely the wrong weapon to use, so every action they do, aside from attempting to use artillery to interdict movement into and out of the built-up area that is being fought over is going to be too costly for them to sustain.
Me? I take the greatest delight in DeSantis's tactics of sending the illegal immigrant invasion to the socialist demoncrats' doorstep- it was a brilliant tactic: they brought them in, let them handle them... I fully agree with him, in fact, we should send all the illegal immigrants into DC so that they're living rent-free in the white house's living room in response, yes, including drug dealers, and violent gangsters, given how the left seems to want them in the country, they should be forced to live with them, not only that, but with the illegals having infinite protections from the establishment, whereas the establishment are to be totally defenseless against the illegal immigrants!

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

Well, seeing as they get their authority *only from the People*, it is *we the People* who decide if they remain in office, regardless of their actions; so yeah, they're *our* employees, not the reverse- regardless of their actions.

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

As for a storyline about undead votes: I fully intend to; and it is a promising idea to put it!

[vantiri.livejournal.com]

I, for one, am delighted we sent the illegals to the liberals; and in fact, we should deliberately and forcibly *disarm the government* within the bounderies of this Repbulic, due to their constant violations of the USA Constitution, but arm those who'd slaughter them wholesale, as well as hanging judges from the rafters of their own courtrooms, due to the last group's constant violations of the law they're supposed to be upholding.
*That* is what I call a "hanging judge" a judge who's been lynched for violations of the law- and that penalty is justified!